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Post by Bills GM (Anthony) on Jan 20, 2022 16:40:20 GMT -5
Seeing that everyone has had multiple days to speak their mind and re-reading the ideas proposed above. I'd thought I'd begin to Frame One possible rule that combines the ideas from above and adds a few additional ideas of mine, as a next step forward. Again this is just ONE idea, it does not need to be THE idea we use. But I believe gives us a framework to work from as we hopefully bring this debate to a finality shortly and move onto proposing/and approving a concrete solution that works for the league.
Lot's of these ideas are from Blaine. Thanks Blaine!!
Rules for GMs Switching Organizations: At the conclusion of each season we would immediately begin the "Team Switching Period". This would open up for one week at the conclusion of the Legacy Super Bowl.
During this time, interested teams would reach out to others to see if there was a match. In the event, two teams agree to Switch Organizations, teams would Post the Switch just like we would if there was a trade. Like with trades, BOTH teams would provide a reasoning as to why the switch interests them and some plans they have for the organization moving forward.
After both teams have provided their explanations AND the weeklong "Team Switching Period" has ended. The entire league will vote on the switch. Voting would be open for 5 days. If there is a simple majority, the switch will go through.
Like trades, GMs who veto the Switch, must provide a brief explanation outlining their concerns as to why two GMs should not switch teams. Key Points - After a switch has been approved, teams must stay with that organization for 4 straight seasons before seeking out another Switch. - NO draft picks can be exchanged as part of a decision to swap teams with another GM - NO players can be exchanged as part of a decision to swap teams with another GM - Trading would be allowed and would follow the same 3 TAB vote voting process.
I believe that the rules above gets the Switch out in the open and allows everyone to have a vote. I've read everyone's posts, and this seems like the main issue. Two teams who want to exchange teams, should be able to, as long as a fair process is in place.
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Post by Broncos GM (Kevin) on Jan 20, 2022 19:00:29 GMT -5
Something is niggling at the back of my mind I can't quite put my finger on. Just to be clear because I don't think it is from Ant's initial post. All picks and players stay with their current franchise, the franchise stays in it's division? Someone posted this is just like a trade so I am wondering a bit if it were a trade would it pass? This is two experienced owners where it makes sense as Ant is a great roster builder via trade and FA, Laura will keep Ant's team competitive but maybe not so good at rebuilding. So in this case all the ingredients are in the right places for it to work.. GM's and HC's move all the time in the NFL this is just extending the realism a bit I guess. I have no issue with trading between the two teams immediately, we already have checks and balances in place for that This for me is less than Ant wanting a different challenge, he could have done as I did and burned it down, acquired picks and then rebuilt that way. I think this is Ant wanting to play in a different conference against different teams for the most part and just a change of scenery My vote unless I can itch that scratch is yay for now I wonder if it's just knowing that if a real life top tier respected GM like Steelers Kevin Colbert randomly jumped ship and took the GM job in Miami or NYG it wouldn't make sense. But the fact is, the best qualified potential replacements would be all over an open Steelers GM job, while the Dolphins and Giants are full of potential job security and ownership issues. In this case, Anthony wanted a burned down roster. The Texans roster is not very good, likely worse than the teams Frank will declare open for replacement. Through no fault of Laura's, life does get in the way of fantasy football sometimes, the Texans are facing a difficult rebuild. They basically have Josh Jacobs, some decent defenders, and a handful of extra draft picks. That's the challenge Anthony wanted. By almost every angle, this specific instance is a positive for the competition level of the league. If Anthony wanted to tear down his Giants roster he would end up with about 10 1st rounders and a handful of excellent young players..Plus, tearing down a competitive roster just for fun is generally frowned upon. I’m assuming I’m being frowned upon then....whoops. It was a semi competitive roster with the potential to collapse real quick.
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Post by Panthers GM (Jesse) on Jan 20, 2022 21:30:06 GMT -5
I wonder if it's just knowing that if a real life top tier respected GM like Steelers Kevin Colbert randomly jumped ship and took the GM job in Miami or NYG it wouldn't make sense. But the fact is, the best qualified potential replacements would be all over an open Steelers GM job, while the Dolphins and Giants are full of potential job security and ownership issues. In this case, Anthony wanted a burned down roster. The Texans roster is not very good, likely worse than the teams Frank will declare open for replacement. Through no fault of Laura's, life does get in the way of fantasy football sometimes, the Texans are facing a difficult rebuild. They basically have Josh Jacobs, some decent defenders, and a handful of extra draft picks. That's the challenge Anthony wanted. By almost every angle, this specific instance is a positive for the competition level of the league. If Anthony wanted to tear down his Giants roster he would end up with about 10 1st rounders and a handful of excellent young players..Plus, tearing down a competitive roster just for fun is generally frowned upon. I’m assuming I’m being frowned upon then....whoops. It was a semi competitive roster with the potential to collapse real quick. Hell Kevin if anything I respect and admire you as a GM, didn't mean it like that at all. An executive decision to undergo a rebuild is one thing, Anthony wanted to demolish the structure and start from nothing. Thats hard to do without selling players like Lamar Jackson, Diggs, Lockett, Kelce etc for literal pennies on the dollar, which would definitely be bad for the league you know?
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Post by Titans GM (Ricky) on Jan 21, 2022 17:02:00 GMT -5
Some key notes I'd like to see happen the process. These are just my viewpoints on the matter. Definitely open to other ideas if someone sees issues or can improve on my thoughts.
- Organization Switching request is at least a two week open period for all GM's after the conclusion of check ins.
(This will allow enough time for GM's to be in the know and part of the switching process for full transparency. The majority of things done here at Legacy have been a slow burn. Not sure why this process needs to be rushed. I like to trade just as much as the next guy but I see no reason to rush this time frame if not extend it longer. Keep in mind there'll be some years no switch requests are even made or needed so we'll go right to trading after check-ins. Waiting until after check-ins gives a clear picture of all available teams before any switches can be requested)
- Open thread where GM's make intentions of wanting a switch known to the league.
(This is where each GM's can make their request to switch. GM's can inform the league if looking at a certain team or open to any available team. This will also let other GM's make a request for the same or different teams that may be available. In the event of multiple GM's wanting the same available team, we can use the tie breakers we currently have in place for division winners. This will reward the team that put in the work all year and earned the switch)
- Once the requested period is complete and it's determined in the previous thread which teams are open and which two teams want to switch it can be posted just like a trade.
(During this time frame GM's can put in their reasoning for being the best option for the switch. This will also give league members time to think about how the switch will affect the league as a whole. This is the opportunity for the switching teams and all league members to give input on the pros and cons of the switch)
- One-Two week open voting period once the trade of a GM switch is posted with majority rules
(Again like I said before I don't see a reason to rush this. There should be at least a two week open voting period to give all GM's adequate time to cast a vote. I also think it should be open to change your vote on the poll until the deadline if you choose to do so. The reason for that is because as time goes peoples thoughts can change and new ideas can be brought to the table. We need time know how this could affect the league. Instant reaction doesn't help in this matter. We are in the off-season we got time which is why I'm requesting the longer time frames. My one concern with an open voting period by poll is that technically the two teams involved could cast a vote as well and throw off the numbers. Something to keep in mind if go this route)
- Once voting is finalized and the decision is made then the switch can take place with the commissioner informing the league in the thread and/or league wide PM that the switch is official and complete.
(This will give the commissioner a chance to give the formal completion of the switch to league)
- Once a GM makes a switch you are locked into that roster for at least 5 years.
(This is why I think it's really important to consider which GM is taking over which team. Because for 5 years they will run that roster. So within that 5 years how confident are you that they will keep that team competitive or bring it back to the promised land)
- The GM's that switch teams should not be allowed to trade with each other for one year.
(I know this one won't be everyone's favorite idea. But you have to look it from the full transparency side not just one less owner to trade with. I think it just leaves open Pandora's box if those two teams are trading right after switching teams. People are already going to be apprehensive as soon as they see those two teams involved. I know we have checks and balances for trades but in this circumstance I think it's better to play it safe than to risk a future problem down the road when teams try to trade together that switched roster. If the switching GM's are committed to the long term of the league then you should be able to wait a year to make a deal happen. GM's will have plenty of time after that year to trade and they would still have 30 other owners to do trades with. Unless those switching GM's already have a trade worked out prior to switching teams I don't see how this should really be that big of a problem)
- We try to limit the amount of switches done per offseason to once maybe twice max.
(I like the idea of what switching teams can bring. But I also think we can't get too crazy with the switching and completely throw off the balance everywhere in the league. So we should limit the amount of switches done per year. This could be flexible in the future if we have a mass amount of GM leave and we want to be able to keep things competitive with GMs who are used to this format who want to move. Overall I don't think it should be something that happens more than once or twice per offseason)
These are just some of my initial thoughts about the process. I'm sure I can explain better or come up with different ideas as time goes but I think these would be a solid starting point for some discussions. Thanks for taking time to read all this I know it's a novel. I apologize for the bad grammar and punctuation. But I'm sure y'all are used to that from me by now. Haha.
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Post by Bills GM (Anthony) on Jan 21, 2022 20:20:23 GMT -5
Ricky like lots of what you say
I do think we are complicating a very simple concept lol
Question why do we need to post if we want to move our team? Or post the type of team we want if? Why does it matter of the open teams, if its two GMs agreeing to swap there teams? As long as the league votes, it becomes transparent and fair…why all these additional meaningless steps?
Why I think we could be complicating: If we’re interested in switching teams, go and do the work….reach out to those teams that peak your interest, PM those owners and see if a switch is possible. Isn’t this how we deal with trades of players/draft picks? Why would this be any different?
When we deal a player or a trade pick, we don’t always publicly announce to the league our intentions ahead of time…we find a partner, agree on a deal, and post to get leagues approval…why not follow this framework? Why invent some new one?
I have no issue with going to 5 years locking in
In terms of trade freeze for year. I can see why we would want this to happen. This would ensure no side deals have happened . However this could be done with shortening the time . Why not say until the draft. That is over 4months of a trade freeze. Over that period of time rosters change and it is highly unlikely that all Components of any fishy nonsense would still be intact 4 months later. Plus all deals need to be agreed to by TAB. Why cant fair deals that TAB agree on be passed?
If people want an extremely long vote open…no problem…don’t see whatsoever what we need that long or what people need to think of for that long. I could agree to whatever length we want. Just dont know why 2 weeks is needed. I wouldnt want to hold up opening of the league or MFL cleanup of rosters for that long.
I think we need to get away with this posting our intentions. Teams who want to switch , reach out to others like we do in trade . Agree on the switch , then post for votes . It’s simple
At the end of the day Laura wants the Giants, I want the Texans…however long we need to wait, or hoops that we need to jump through we will do.We may be the firsts wanting this, but we won’t be the lasts. All I ask for is a simple and fair process that gets me the Texans and Laura the Giants and then allows future teams who want to do this the team that they wish to trade for.
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Post by Titans GM (Ricky) on Jan 21, 2022 20:59:20 GMT -5
Ricky like lots of what you say I do think m we are complicating a very simple concept lol Question why do we need to post if we want to move our team? Or post the type of team we want if? Why does it matter if that the open teams are if its two GMs agreeing to swap there teams? As long as the league votes, it becomes transparent and fair…why all these additional meaningless steps? Why I think we could be complicating: If we’re interested in switching teams, go and do the work….reach out to those teams that peak your interest, PM those owners and see if a switch is possible. Isn’t this how we deal with trades of players/draft picks? Why would this be any different? When we deal a player or a trade pick, we don’t always publicly announce to the league our intentions ahead of time…we find a partner, agree on a deal, and post to get leagues approval…why not follow this framework? Why invent some new one? I have no issue with going to 5 years locking in In terms of trade freeze for year. I can see why we would want this to happen. This would ensure no side deals have happened . However this could be done with shortening the time . Why not say until the draft. That is over 4months of a trade freeze. Over that period of time rosters change and it is highly unlikely that all Components of any fishy nonsense would still be intact 4 months later. Plus all deals need to be agreed to by TAB. Why cant fair deals that TAB agree on be passed? If people want am extremely long vote open…no problem…don’t see whatsoever what we need that long or what people need to think of for that long. I could agree to whatever length we want. Just dont know why 2 weeks is needed. I wouldnt want to hold up opening of the league or MFL cleanup of rosters for that long. I think we need to get away with this posting our intentions. Teams who want to switch , reach out to others like we do in trade . Agree on the switch , then post for votes . It’s simple This is bigger than just a normal trade. Which is why I'm requesting that extra steps be taken. How do we know if another GM would like to switch to the same available team? I understand you did the leg work to find a open team that fit your plans. But imo that should be something that's done for all to see after knowing which teams are available or willing to switch. To this point we've yet to hear from Laura. How do we know what her thoughts are on the switch? Yes you've discussed in PM but that leaves the rest of us in the dark as to the reasoning why she feels the Giants are the best for her to take over. The only thing I can think of is that since that roster is generally intact and will be for the next couple years there's less work she'll have to do compared to a rebuild with the Texans which she may not be up to with the time that will be needed to commit for that type of thing. Just because a deal is fair doesn't mean it wasn't something discussed beforehand. And because the intentions weren't really public before all of this started how do we know what conversations were had beforehand? Again I think the lack of communication from Laura on this subject also shows she's indifferent either way but it's more of what you wanted for the switch so she's cool with it. I could be wrong in that matter but it's hard to know when all you have a silence on her end about a swtich that was wanted.
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Post by Bills GM (Anthony) on Jan 21, 2022 21:04:08 GMT -5
Two things:
1. Why does it matter if someone else wants my team? If I don’t want there team…why would they get mine? Thats why this positing doesn’t make sense. People are only going to switch teams, if its a roster “they like”. Hence why two teams need to reach out to find a match
2. Laura has been on GroupMe. But like with all trades, after eveyrthing is posted both sides would need to put all there reasons forward. Not prior to. Also both of us went to Frank in PMs, he heard both of us and did agree. Yes not in public. But to a very honourable man in Frank.
Let’s make sure we are not drifting here, We are working towards a rule that allows trading of teams. Thats what this discussion is for, Think that last post may be drifting into a little conspiracy land
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Post by Titans GM (Ricky) on Jan 21, 2022 21:07:33 GMT -5
Two things: 1. Why does it matter if someone else wants my team? If I don’t want there team…why would they get mine? Thats why this positing doesn’t make sense. People are only going to switch teams, if its a roster “they like”. Hence why two teams need to reach out to find a match 2. Laura has been on GroupMe. But like with all trades, after eveyrthing is posted both sides would need to put all there reasons forward. Not prior to It matters because of the team and GM situation. Like other GM's have mentioned previously in this thread. If we know what teams are available and what GMs are willing to switch. Then the league can better place those teams in the position for future success long term. This idea isn't just for your switch now it is for all future switches as well. I understand that people use GroupMe but not everyone does. As far as I know GroupMe isn't anything official That's just to talk shop about things. We have proboards to go through the official process of things when we need to be done. But that's just how I view that
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Post by Bills GM (Anthony) on Jan 21, 2022 21:10:34 GMT -5
Im hoping we can get back on topic of agreeing on a rule that allows switching of teams to occur. That is what is the main thing here.
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Post by Titans GM (Ricky) on Jan 21, 2022 21:10:38 GMT -5
No one is questioning Frank's on honor or anybody else's. It's a matter of having rules in place instead of making things happen and then figuring it out as we go. Yes there will be things we do have to figure out in the future that are unforeseen. Everything we have done here has been slow burn process. Why you three felt the need in PM's to get it done that quickly I don't understand. Which is why I'm raising the concerns that I am. Now if my concern is turned out to be overthinking in an invalid that's fine. But I think it's fair to have these discussions like we are now compared to three people deciding what will affect the whole league.
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Post by Bills GM (Anthony) on Jan 21, 2022 21:16:26 GMT -5
Would you like to see the 4 or 5 messages between Frank, Laura and I ?
I said previously I apologize for Reaching out to the commish. He was in the loop. But the league was not. I am sorry for that. Could we move on from that?
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Post by Titans GM (Ricky) on Jan 21, 2022 21:17:55 GMT -5
Would you like to see the 4 or 5 messages between Frank, Laura and I ? I said previously I apologized for Reaching out to the commish. He was in the loop. But the league was not. I am sorry for that. Could we move on from that? = [br I'm just answering the questions you are asking. I don't even think there's need to apologize for it. There is no structure in place for these things so there isn't a way to know. Which is why I'm saying we need to get in structure in place before someone is allowed to switch teams and a structure is set up. No I don't want to see the messages between you three. I think it should just be done in public. If each GM is so intent on switching they should have no problem presenting why that switch should be best. We're only hearing from one side of the switch right now.
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Post by Bills GM (Anthony) on Jan 21, 2022 21:20:16 GMT -5
As I said above Ricky Laura has talked on GroupMe. Once a process is set up here…you will hear from Laura. Just like the others have on GroupMe.
We need a process first.
Rest assured there are messages to Frank stating intention and publicly on GroupMe. She changed name and picture both here and on Chat.
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Post by Titans GM (Ricky) on Jan 21, 2022 21:25:34 GMT -5
As I said above Ricky Laura has talked on GroupMe. Once a process is set up here…you will hear from Laura. Just like the others have on GroupMe. We need a process first. Rest assured there are messages to Frank stating intention and publicly on GroupMe. She changed name and picture lol Yeah I know it works out good for both you guys. If the intention is to figure out a way to keep keep Laura in the league then I understand why you're willing to give her a team where there's less work she will have to manage. But then I think it should just be said by the parties that's the reason why. Because from where I see I don't think it's fair to say that she's earned that right over others who may want it. Or even based off recent history of team management that it's earned. I understand that's a different subject than the communication part of it but to my original post that is my two main issues. I completely agree there needs to be a process first before anything can be done. Which is why I raise my concerns because it was done and is done before a processed could be approached.
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Post by Bills GM (Anthony) on Jan 21, 2022 21:27:51 GMT -5
Just to be clear, You think Frank and I reached out to Laura to keep her in the league by giving her another team to manage that would be easier?
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