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Post by Cardinals GM (Gremlin) on Oct 14, 2016 18:22:49 GMT -5
i give
Sammy Watkins 3 3 3 UFA
Conditional cut on approval to make math work
Sean Renfree 0.45 0.45 RFA
Jets give
Verner Alterraun 2.8 2.8 2.8 UFA
Vance McDonald 0.67 0.67 UFA
+/- 470k
Giving up Sammy for a middling TE hurts, but he wont help me win this year and I need to stop the bleeding at TE any way i can. These are the kinds of moves that need to be made in order to win a championship in this league, and that is what I need to do this year. Thx Jets for the deal.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 18:32:15 GMT -5
jets accept on mfl. i was losing faith in both vance and verner. Getting a high ceiling high floor player in watkins to produce next year while also getting rid of a 2.8 m cb works financially and offense wise for me.
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Post by Washington GM (Blaine) on Oct 14, 2016 18:54:04 GMT -5
Wow how Sammy has fallen. This is a low package for him but since Sammy is out I see that Cards need to get something at TE so I think it's fair. Approve 1-0
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Post by Bills GM (Anthony) on Oct 14, 2016 18:54:59 GMT -5
Approve 2
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Post by Rams GM (Frank) on Oct 14, 2016 19:22:28 GMT -5
Approve 3
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 20:26:52 GMT -5
I just saw this trade and I do not understand how everyone thinks it is so good in a Dynasty league. Watkins is by far worth a lot more than a 26 yr old TE who has seen 7 targets in 5 weeks and a CB that has scored 9.25 pts in the first 5 weeks of the season.
Watkins has a foot injury and will most likely return later this season. Even if he doesn't, this trade is far to lopsided to allow to go through.
Did the Cards forget that he has Eifert coming back soon? How much bleeding at TE can there really be with this acquisition?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 20:52:28 GMT -5
I have to agree with the Browns on this... I was very high on McDonald coming into the year but after the first few weeks it's become apparent that he doesn't factor into that offense at all. The only thing saving any of his potential is his 2 touchdowns, which isn't sustainable because of his lack of targets. Also, Blaine Gabbert was a big reason McDonald was such a sleeper this year because of their rapport, and now he's been replaced by Kaep. Before last year when McDonald caught 30 passes (Gabbert was part of that), he had a total of 10 catches in 2 years. Verner on the other hand doesn't get thrown to much now because of how good he has become at the position. QB's rarely look his way anymore and he didn't even score 100 points last year.
On the other side of the deal, Watkins is easily a top 20 WR in dynasty and most may argue top 10. I know he's had some injury scares but he's 23 years old and has had stat lines of:
65/982/6 with 128 targets in 2014 - #25 in legacy scoring among WRs 60/1047/9 with 96 targets in 2015 - #20 in legacy scoring among WRs
Watkins has been a stud when healthy and still has 2 years on his contract after this year with the possibility of an extension. I just don't see how a player with stud potential like Watkins can be traded for two more or less duds at there positions.
I respect both owners opinions in this matter but someone has to explain this further to me because I just do not understand how this is fair at all.
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Post by BuccaneersGM (Greg) on Oct 14, 2016 21:13:32 GMT -5
I agree with the Browns and the Ravens. This is one sided trade that should not have been allowed to happen in a dynasty league.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 21:19:13 GMT -5
Watkins is on ir and when dez had the same type of injury he needed the second surgury. Watkins is rehabing and its not garunteed he comes back this year or at full speed next year if they wait until playoffs to do a second surgury. Verner has improved since being benched halfway through the season last year, and mcdonald has high td potential around the redzone and is in on many plays due to his excellent blocking
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Post by Rams GM (Frank) on Oct 14, 2016 21:38:24 GMT -5
Gremlin has been in the midst of a championship run since the start of the season, and it culminates in week 6 with a must win game against the Rams. Looking at the schedule ahead, a loss against the Rams this week would SEVERELY cripple his chances at a division title. That being said, we have an odd situation, one of the better teams in the league is downgrading long term talent to win now. There is a presidence for this in these leagues, as I made the same move last year after Jamaal Charles went down with injury. Just a few days ago, the Giants and Jets made a similar trade involving Woodhead. In other words, the team getting the (perceived) better end of the deal is a team in rebuild mode, which in my opinion not only does not do damage to the league, its actually a nice re-balancing of the league for the immediate need of the 2016 season. For me, as Commish and the GM of the Rams, this trade is a quandary. Even if I agree with the perceived value, do I hit the veto on a division rival who's got the biggest game of the year against me? Trust me when I say a nice fat zero this week from the TE position would truly help me on the path to another division title. However, my perspective has to remain unbiased, and judging by the fact the Watkins is injured yet again, I believe giving a veteran GM the freedom to go all in was the best choice.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 21:43:12 GMT -5
Even if Watkins doesn't come back this year (signs point to he will be back this year), It's a dynasty league. He's on a 3 year deal with the possibility for an extension. He's going to be a top player for years to come, hence his top 10 dynasty ranking among WRs. Verner finished 59th in CB points last year and only had 1 double digit week. This year he has 9.25 points. 9.25 points ON THE YEAR, he's 122nd in CB points this year. You can't tell me he's improved when he's not scoring any points. McDonald on the other hand is an excellent blocking tight end, but that's not going to help in fantasy. He has 5 catches on 7 targets this year and got extremely lucky on his TDs.
It seems that you're trading two players who do more in real life than in fantasy, which is why I don't understand this deal and how it got passed so quickly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 21:45:32 GMT -5
Frank I understand where you're coming from, but giving up a top 10 WR in dynasty to POSSIBLY win 1 week seems ridiculous. Giving up Watkins for 5 and a half years for THE CHANCE to win 1 game???
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Post by Rams GM (Frank) on Oct 14, 2016 21:47:59 GMT -5
Frank I understand where you're coming from, but giving up a top 10 WR in dynasty to POSSIBLY win 1 week seems ridiculous. Giving up Watkins for 5 and a half years for THE CHANCE to win 1 game??? I agree with you Ozzy, but understand that the Cards have been trying to win this division since the league started, and whether its a wise choice or not, I want to give him the freedom to go all in in this situation.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 22:01:40 GMT -5
Trades like these are what make owners decide to leave leagues. If this were a redraft league, I would say have at it and go for the trade. In a Dynasty league, Watkins is GOLD. At 23 yrs old he is signed through 2018 at $3M/yr. Then he can be extended another three years, through 2021, at $5M each year. In 2021, he will be 28 yrs old and his owner could extend him again. Very doubtful Vance McDonald or Alteraun Verner get extended even once.
Playing for one division game does not make me feel any better about this trade. Especially when one of the players (Watkins) will be productive for many more years to come.
Frank you are the Commish and if that is how you feel about the trade, you do what is best for the league, not just one team. You are at risk of losing owners in this league, with trades as lopsided as this one.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 23:39:04 GMT -5
This is just horrific. Can the 3 TAB members who approved this trade please explain how they think this is even remotely fair. I agree with Oz and Ozzy, the CHANCE to win 1 divisional game (by adding minimal points at the TE position) which will not decide the season for the Cards is nowhere near close to 5+ cheap years of Watkins who is a perceived top 15 WR and has that talent. If it was in the SB it'd still be an awful trade but at least it'd be for a good reason.
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