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Post by Rams GM (Frank) on Dec 13, 2022 1:29:25 GMT -5
As I've been saying for a while now, I believe that S and CB scoring is trending far behind other positions. We made some changes a couple years back to help these two-position come up to par, and we did that.
My proposal:
Passed Defense from 2.5 up to 3 points
Interceptions from 5 up to 5.5 points
These are modest increases, as these will also slightly help DE and LB's, who we don't want to make those position disproportionally overvalued. But in general, should most help out the Saftey and Cornerback positions we would be trying to improve the value on.
We currently give sacks a 4.5, but you also get credit for a tackle and a tackle for loss, effectively making a sack around a 7 point play I believe. So keeping that in mind, I wouldn't be opposed to raising an INT up to 6 points, but okay with a modest 5.5.
In general, it will also help defense as a whole come up to par with offense a little more.
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Post by Panthers GM (Jesse) on Dec 13, 2022 1:34:46 GMT -5
Agree with this. I would support 6 for picks. An INT is a bigger play (usually) than a sack, and it would be a great way to differentiate the play making ballhawk DBs from the rookies getting picked on for 4 tackles and a PD every game. A 2 INT game from a corner should have a big scoring impact.
Edit:
Also wanted to point out the extreme disparity in value especially for CBs in the rookie draft. Sauce Gardner went 3.01 in our 2022 draft because no matter how good he is, he’s still a CB and there isn’t enough of a difference between him and an average slot CB who feeds on crossing routes.
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Post by Browns GM (Dan) on Dec 13, 2022 11:45:34 GMT -5
How about we make the change specifically for the CB and S positions like we have for DTs
Increasing tackles, PDs, and INTs for these positions specifically to help bump their numbers but not impact the other positions?
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Post by Browns GM (Dan) on Dec 13, 2022 11:51:26 GMT -5
Agree with this. I would support 6 for picks. An INT is a bigger play (usually) than a sack, and it would be a great way to differentiate the play making ballhawk DBs from the rookies getting picked on for 4 tackles and a PD every game. A 2 INT game from a corner should have a big scoring impact. Edit: Also wanted to point out the extreme disparity in value especially for CBs in the rookie draft. Sauce Gardner went 3.01 in our 2022 draft because no matter how good he is, he’s still a CB and there isn’t enough of a difference between him and an average slot CB who feeds on crossing routes. Sauce went 3.1 because he was projected as a shutdown corner, not a big play maker, and usually that means he's a useless fantasy asset, just look at his points after the bye when teams have realised he shouldn't be the guy they target. CBs do get drafted low but thats partly down to the positional value being the lowest of all positions in the league, as well as the unreliability of the position, very few CBs are top scorers at the position for multiple years in a row because their points depends on if they're being targeted or not unlike other IDPs who actively seek out the ball. Scoring changes will help that but we'll always see QBs being the must draft position high in the draft and CBs will always be one of the least sought after positions. |
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Post by Rams GM (Frank) on Dec 13, 2022 11:58:01 GMT -5
How about we make the change specifically for the CB and S positions like we have for DTs Increasing tackles, PDs, and INTs for these positions specifically to help bump their numbers but not impact the other positions? That's interesting Dan, because I was thinking before I even posted this proposal, that DL and LB would also benefit from this rule, granted to a more limited extent. In case of LB, as the most valued position on defense, it could bump it up to make it overvalued. Id be open to this idea of limiting these increases to CB and S, because those are the positions we need to bring up in value. |
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Post by Panthers GM (Jesse) on Dec 13, 2022 11:59:23 GMT -5
Agree with this. I would support 6 for picks. An INT is a bigger play (usually) than a sack, and it would be a great way to differentiate the play making ballhawk DBs from the rookies getting picked on for 4 tackles and a PD every game. A 2 INT game from a corner should have a big scoring impact. Edit: Also wanted to point out the extreme disparity in value especially for CBs in the rookie draft. Sauce Gardner went 3.01 in our 2022 draft because no matter how good he is, he’s still a CB and there isn’t enough of a difference between him and an average slot CB who feeds on crossing routes. Sauce went 3.1 because he was projected as a shutdown corner, not a big play maker, and usually that means he's a useless fantasy asset, just look at his points after the bye when teams have realised he shouldn't be the guy they target. CBs do get drafted low but thats partly down to the positional value being the lowest of all positions in the league, as well as the unreliability of the position, very few CBs are top scorers at the position for multiple years in a row because their points depends on if they're being targeted or not unlike other IDPs who actively seek out the ball. Scoring changes will help that but we'll always see QBs being the must draft position high in the draft and CBs will always be one of the least sought after positions. Not saying they should be as valuable as QBs or RBs, but our scoring should allow for the CB/S equivalents of Myles Garrett and Maxx Crosby. If a player is a truly skilled takeaway artist you should feel a little tempted to take them with maybe that late 1 or early 2. Agree with your other point though, LBs and DEs can break out for 40 point games by racking up sacks, that's their big play. DTs score extra points for tackles. INTs and to a lesser extend PDs are the big stats for CB/S. Not sure DE/LB need the potential INT boost. |
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Post by Rams GM (Frank) on Dec 13, 2022 13:11:49 GMT -5
Here's another option to raise CB and S value
Raise points value for CB and S ONLY
Tackle: 1.5 up to 2 points
Passed Defense: 2.5 up to 3 points
INT: 5 up to 6 points
Again, these would be for CB and Saftey ONLY.
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Post by Rams GM (Frank) on Dec 13, 2022 13:13:44 GMT -5
Here's another option to raise CB and S value Raise points value for CB and S ONLY Tackle: 1.5 up to 2 points Passed Defense: 2.5 up to 3 points INT: 5 up to 6 points Again, these would be for CB and Saftey ONLY. Or, we can just go up to 2.5 point per tackle, just like we did last year with DT and DE. |
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Post by Rams GM (Frank) on Dec 13, 2022 14:09:14 GMT -5
Or, we could leave Passed defense and INT where there at, and just raise Tackles for CB and S up to 2.5 just like we did with DT and DE. That in it of itself may be enough for now.
Thoughts?
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Post by Panthers GM (Jesse) on Dec 13, 2022 14:21:30 GMT -5
Or, we could leave Passed defense and INT where there at, and just raise Tackles for CB and S up to 2.5 just like we did with DT and DE. That in it of itself may be enough for now. Thoughts? I think I like the initial proposal better. Rather reward the big splash plays than the routine tackles. Plus that might actually increase the issue with random slot corners being overvalued compared to undervalued playmakers. |
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Post by Eagles GM (Joe) on Dec 14, 2022 20:34:58 GMT -5
Would we be interested in boosting return yardage on INTs for them too? That would also add to their “splash play” value. Just an idea
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Post by Browns GM (Dan) on Dec 15, 2022 0:14:54 GMT -5
Lets do some calcs after week 17 and see how the proposed changes would affect the CB and S position.
Key stats would be highest scorer, number of players above 10/15/20 PPG, #64/96 scorer (Last #2 or #3 starting at the position)
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Post by Cardinals GM (Gremlin) on Dec 17, 2022 2:54:28 GMT -5
Would we be interested in boosting return yardage on INTs for them too? That would also add to their “splash play” value. Just an idea I like this. Raise the pick for S and CB, and coverage LB can splash on a tackle monster |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2023 19:40:02 GMT -5
I like the increase of CB and S only
INT 6
PD 3
T 2.5
But if we increased the int return yards, I feel that should be an increase all around the board, because long returns are rare events and should be rewarded equally. And would maybe have it be a separate rule amendment in votes. CB and Safety already have a much higher probability of getting a long return
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Post by Ravens GM (Nate) on Mar 6, 2023 3:07:49 GMT -5
I would like to see the CBs become a bit more relevant.
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