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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 13:47:58 GMT -5
I am new to this league but IDP should play an important part in winning a fantasy championship. Gives owners more ways to win.
Some IDP position scoring is really low.
Should be voted on as a package to make it easier if league wants IDP to matter.
So here goes:
Tackles 2 pts
Assist Tackle 1 pt
Sack 8 pts
Pass Defense 3 pts
Int 6 pts
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Post by Rams GM (Frank) on Feb 14, 2021 14:49:53 GMT -5
I am new to this league but IDP should play an important part in winning a fantasy championship. Gives owners more ways to win. Some IDP position scoring is really low. Should be voted on as a package to make it easier if league wants IDP to matter. So here goes: Tackles 2 pts Assist Tackle 1 pt Sack 8 pts Pass Defense 3 pts Int 6 pts Looking at the defensive scoring versus the offensive, there is definitely an argument to be made for increasing the defensive scoring. Now here at Legacy, we have done that over the past few years to a limited extent, and looking at the overall comparison numbers between both sides of the ball, the defensive numbers are definitely behind the offense.
Here's what I would propose, because we have a mature league, and league members have built there teams under the currents standards and current scoring system, I would be in favor of a gradual increase on a year by year basis.
I know for sure that pass defense in this league is low, we started raising it from 1 point, up to 1.5 point, and eventually we got it up to 1.75. But even with those increases, I think its still low.
Here's an idea for league GM's:
Tackles from 1.5 up to 1.75 Assists from 1 point up to 1.25 Pass Defense from 1.75 up 2.50 Sack from 4 points up to 5 points
We'll leave INT at 5 for now, as raising the PD by 0.75 is somewhat significant, and then we can re-evaluate in the future.
But I open to hearing from other GM's, if they are in favor of raising Defensive points, keeping it the same, or if other GM's have their own version of how much we should increase defensive points.
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Post by Washington GM (Blaine) on Feb 14, 2021 15:35:06 GMT -5
I would vote to leave the scoring how it is. I think Frank has the scoring dialed in really well. As he mentioned we have already made scoring adjustments here and I think it is pretty good the way it is.
Just my two cents 😀
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Post by Rams GM (Frank) on Feb 14, 2021 16:37:02 GMT -5
I would vote to leave the scoring how it is. I think Frank has the scoring dialed in really well. As he mentioned we have already made scoring adjustments here and I think it is pretty good the way it is. Just my two cents 😀 Thanks Blaine,
We've tweaked the scoring here over the years, and we have made some gradual changes over the years to bring defense up to par. Ill consider small changes if league GM's feel we need to go that route. For me it has to be a fair balance, as Ive seen some leagues go to defense heavy IMO. Ill wait and see what other GM's think.
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Post by Lions GM on Feb 14, 2021 17:16:19 GMT -5
I'd say passes defensed should be raised,but that's it.you have to remember when you get a sack you also get the points for qb hit and tackle for loss so you actually get 7 or 8 points for one sack.
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Post by Rams GM (Frank) on Feb 14, 2021 17:50:06 GMT -5
I'd say passes defensed should be raised,but that's it.you have to remember when you get a sack you also get the points for qb hit and tackle for loss so you actually get 7 or 8 points for one sack. Yeah, a sack works out to about 7 points. I'm okay where were at, with the exception of pass defense. But I'm open to everyone thoughts |
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Post by Browns GM (Dan) on Feb 14, 2021 19:52:46 GMT -5
I personally agree that scoring definetely favours certain positions.
QB is obviously the top scoring, as the norm in most leagues
Receiving RBs/Top RBs follow closely behind
Top WRs, RBs, and elite LBs
#2/3 WRs, good LBs, and elite S
Rotation RB/WR, Pass Rusher LBs, Starting S, Elite CB
TE not named Kelce, Elite DT and DE (These need bumping hard - Donald should not be #146 scoring)
Remainders
Personally I think a few changes would help the IDP scoring get closer to the numbers on offence
Tackles = 2pts
Assists = 1pt
TFL = 1pt
Sacks = 5pts
PD = 2.5pts
INT = 6pts
FF = 5pts
FR = 4pts
For DT and DE I would add bonus tackle and TFL points
(DE and DT only)
Tackle = 3pts
Assist = 1.5pts
TFL = 2pts
For CB and S I would buff Passes Defended and INTs (and consider upping tackles too)
PD = 4pts
INT = 8pts
(Potential buffs)
Tackles = 2.5pts
Assists = 1.25pts
TFL = 1.5pts
TE Buffs would be hard to work out as Kelce (22nd) and Waller (35th) scored so well, but the rest sucked (Logan Thomas is 3rd in 126th)
Unfortunately that means you can't just buff Receptions, TDs, or Yards otherwise the top TEs just become that much better.
If possible I would say duplicate the 2021 MFL site, add some of the suggested changes onto the scoring, and then check how each position fares in comparison to our current scoring and each other.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 23:45:48 GMT -5
I personally agree that scoring definetely favours certain positions. QB is obviously the top scoring, as the norm in most leagues Receiving RBs/Top RBs follow closely behind Top WRs, RBs, and elite LBs #2/3 WRs, good LBs, and elite S Rotation RB/WR, Pass Rusher LBs, Starting S, Elite CB TE not named Kelce, Elite DT and DE (These need bumping hard - Donald should not be #146 scoring) Remainders Personally I think a few changes would help the IDP scoring get closer to the numbers on offence Tackles = 2pts Assists = 1pt TFL = 1pt Sacks = 5pts PD = 2.5pts INT = 6pts FF = 5pts FR = 4pts For DT and DE I would add bonus tackle and TFL points (DE and DT only) Tackle = 3pts Assist = 1.5pts TFL = 2pts For CB and S I would buff Passes Defended and INTs (and consider upping tackles too) PD = 4pts INT = 8pts (Potential buffs) Tackles = 2.5pts Assists = 1.25pts TFL = 1.5pts TE Buffs would be hard to work out as Kelce (22nd) and Waller (35th) scored so well, but the rest sucked (Logan Thomas is 3rd in 126th) Unfortunately that means you can't just buff Receptions, TDs, or Yards otherwise the top TEs just become that much better. If possible I would say duplicate the 2021 MFL site, add some of the suggested changes onto the scoring, and then check how each position fares in comparison to our current scoring and each other. I like the thinking above. The reason why IDP should matter is an owner has to invest in ALL positions. Go on MFL and look at the scoring it is really offensive screwed except TE. TE needs a completion bump 1.5 per completion. TE's maybe more than RB/WR's to make them worth more. NFL scoring is different too so you have to realize this when doing scoring -- for strip sacks with fumbles don't always get points for tackle behind the line. That's why over 6 pts for a sack is important and lower tackle behind the line to 1.5 pts. Doing this makes OLB's worth more. DT need to get a sack or tackle bump to matter. 2 pts more for a sack would help. 2 pts for tackle is pretty standard for a IDP league. Cb's aren't worth much as it stands. Pass defense has to be increased to make them matter. 3 pts min but 4 would really make them worth something. Some OLB's are in coverage all the time. PD scoring would help them too. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 23:50:19 GMT -5
I'd say passes defensed should be raised,but that's it.you have to remember when you get a sack you also get the points for qb hit and tackle for loss so you actually get 7 or 8 points for one sack. This doesn't always happen in NFL scoring. Different home teams scorers do it differently. Lowering tackle for loss and increasing sack would make a difference. |
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Post by Browns GM (Dan) on Feb 23, 2021 8:12:36 GMT -5
Just as a comparison, we all know that comparing off elite players is a bit of a bad comparison method, so lets look at the PPG beginning of each #2, #3, and some #4 tiers (Positions 33 , 65, 97). Obviously this isn't a proveall comparison either but gives a view of points at depth at each position.
RB 33: 13.030 (Todd Gurley)
RB 65: 7.993 (Alex Collins)
RB 97: 4.473 (AJ Dillon)
WR 33: 14.993 (Corey Davis)
WR 65: 10.600 (Preston Williams) <- Most teams will be starting 3 WRs, maybe 4
WR 97: 7.396 (KJ Hamler)
TE 33: 6.159 (Geraldn Everett)
TE 65: 2.647 (Marcedes Lewis) <- No teams are likely starting 3 TEs and most won't start 2
DT 33: 5.367 (Malik Jackson)
DT 65: 3.600 (Bravvion Roy) <- No teams are likely starting 3 DTs
DE 33: 7.225 (Randy Gregory)
DE 65: 5.167 (Trevon Coley)
LB 33: 11.950 (Christian Kirksey)
LB 65: 9.024 (Rashaan Evans)
LB 97: 6.000 (Alex Ogletree) <- Most teams will be starting 3 LBs, maybe 4
CB 33: 8.689 (J.C. Jackson)
CB 65: 7.500 (Tramaine Brock)
S 33: 9.122 (Eddie Jackson)
S 65: 6.923 (Justin Burris)
Just looking at this you can see that WRs are the highest scoring overall, LBs slightly behind, and RBs slightly behind them.
Depth at TE is horrific, as is DTs and DEs, these are the positions that need help more than others.
CBs probably need help with the Pass Defended, Safety's also get a little buff from this which should get them closer to LBs overall.
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Post by Colts GM (Darryl) on Feb 23, 2021 9:17:40 GMT -5
Personally, I'm in favor of running a few mocks with the proposed increase. Mainly, because I do not believe the disparity between offensive and defensive scoring is really that far off. In fact, the average numbers suggest around 8.33 ppg, which could be possibly taken care of by raising the DT and DE positions about 2 ppg. In sum, without a mock, current proposals may end-up with higher totals than anticipated.
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Post by Rams GM (Frank) on Feb 23, 2021 13:13:01 GMT -5
Personally, I'm in favor of running a few mocks with the proposed increase. Mainly, because I do not believe the disparity between offensive and defensive scoring is really that far off. In fact, the average numbers suggest around 8.33 ppg, which could be possibly taken care of by raising the DT and DE positions about 2 ppg. In sum, without a mock, current proposals may end-up with higher totals than anticipated. I have yet to open the voting on this proposition, precisely because I have some hesitation on raising scoring, especially on the LB position. I will run some mocks on MFL to see how these numbers change, but the focus on these potential rule changes is to try and bring up the scoring on DL and Secondary ever so gradually, as I believe this is where some scoring disparities lie.
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Post by Browns GM (Dan) on Feb 23, 2021 13:58:13 GMT -5
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Post by Rams GM (Frank) on Feb 24, 2021 2:28:02 GMT -5
I have run some mock scoring changes on MFL, based on the following scoring changes: Raising Sacks from 4 to 4.5 QB Hits from 0.50 to 1 Passed Defense from 1.75 to 2.5 Tackles from 1.50 to 1.75 Here is what I found based on top end players breaking an average ppg of 10 points or more DE - went from 11 up to 19 DT - went from 2 up to 3 CB - went from 12 up to 32 S - went from 32 up to 45 LB - went from 57 up to 70 From my analysis the biggest impact was made in the secondary, followed by a solid boost for LB's, a modest boost for DE and a minimal boost for DT. Linebackers would be almost as close of a positional impact as WR's, as with this scoring adjustment we would have 70 LB's break 10 ppg or more, while we would have 68 WR's break 10 ppg or more. However, top end scorers would still make the WR position slightly more impactful, as 5 WR's broke the 20 ppg or more, as compared to 1 LB breaking the 20 ppg or more barrier. Saftey's and CB's really come up nice, and while they still wont match up to LB's, it gets them significantly close. Defensive line is where we still see some disparity, especially in the DT position. While Im not a big fan of changing scoring methods based on individual positions, I prefer a universal scoring system for all positions, maybe raising tackles for the DT position alone could make an impact for that position. That being said, the DE position does come up fairly modest, but still significantly behind the LB's and the Secondary positions.
Overall this definitely closes the gap between offense and defense, but still making the offensive side of the ball more impactful. More importantly, these changes will not overly impact the LB position, as I worry about making that position too strong.
The only question in my mind, is do we make special scoring adjustments for the DL, or do we leave as a position of disparity. Again, I prefer a universal scoring system, but Im open to at least an increase in points per tackle for the DT position as a way to make that position more impactful.
Another option would be not to raise the scoring on LB's, as that would definitely keep Secondary and DL significantly closer on that side of the ball, but reducing how it matches-up with the WR position. I honestly believe we could keep Tackles at 1.5, and still make some tremendous improvements to the defensive side of the ball.
NOTE: Tomorrow I will run a mock with the same scoring changes with the exception of raising Tackles, and keeping that at 1.5
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Post by Rams GM (Frank) on Feb 24, 2021 9:23:05 GMT -5
I have run some mock scoring changes on MFL, based on the following scoring changes (Keeping Tackles at 1.5): Raising Sacks from 4 to 4.5 QB Hits from 0.50 to 1 Passed Defense from 1.75 to 2.5 Here is what I found based on top end players breaking an average ppg of 10 points or more DE - went from 11 up to 14 DT - went from 2 stayed at 2 CB - went from 12 up to 22 S - went from 32 up to 35 LB - went from 57 up to 59
WR - Stayed at 68 (Just for Comparison sake)
All positions benefited across the board, including LB's. The secondary positions benefited from these changes the most, with minimal changes to LB and DL.
The impact of this scoring method can be seen in just close the Saftey position would come with LB's.
Top 3 Saftey's
1. Adams 17.3 ppg 2. Budda 14.9 ppg
3. Chinn 14.2 ppg
Top 3 LB's
1. White 19.7 ppg
2. Watt 18.1 ppg (Pass Rush Specialist)
2. R. Smith 18.0 ppg
While there is still a disparity between LB and S in the top 3, Watt happens to be a sack specialist which boost his numbers. The 4th LB on that list is Darius Leonard at 17.3 who is also a pass rush specialist, and number 5 would be Eric Kendricks who comes in at 16.5 ppg. Kendricks being more of a true tackling MLB.
By raising the Sack numbers to improve DL, this raises the OLB sack specialist numbers as we see two in the top 5 of the LB category.
This tells me we would really close the gap between LB and S, while not making LB overly powerful.
The CB numbers are much improved as well:
Top 3 CB's
1. Humphrey 14.6 ppg 2. Hilton 12.8 ppg 3. Butler 12.7 ppg
Personally, I think these numbers work well with the exception of the DL position, whcih we may have to accommodate with special scoring provisions with those particular positions.
However, raising a tackle (from the post above) from 1.5 to 1.75 makes quite an impact across the board for all positions, not only LB's but S and CB's as well.
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